Times are hard in the United States right now. Every time I turn around, it seems someone I know has either lost a job or had his hours cut. And it’s not just here in Southern Oregon.
Yesterday Walmart announced 700-800 job cuts at their headquarters in Bentonville, AR. Stores like Circuit City and Linens ‘n’ Things are shutting down all together. I know things are bad out there. And though my husband and I are OK at the moment, we’ve been through job losses before, and I know how scary and discouraging it is. Yes, I know the economic news is bad.
So why am I not happy that the Senate passed the Stimulus Plan yesterday? It comes down to this. I don’t think it will work. Not in the short term, and not in the long term. Furthermore, I think it has the potential to do even more damage that my children’s generation will have to clean up.
I’m also not completely sure why some of the things that are in the stimulus package are in a plan to stimulate the economy. Things like computerizing all medical records and making a new bureaucracy to track medical treatments and guide doctors in making medical decisions, so as to reduce costs. That alone is enough to make me oppose the stimulus package. Monitoring my healthcare is going to stimulate the economy?
Furthermore, the stimulus package is over $800 BILLION dollars. We already have a deficit, and now we’re going to borrow a lot more money, which is supposed to help our economy?
I don’t claim to be an economist, and I really might be missing something here. But when I think of my own life, when I incur a bunch of debt today, it really helps my lifestyle. Temporarily. In the long run, I need to find a way to pay back that debt, and my experience has been that the difficulties in repaying the debt are worse than the benefits of taking on the debt in the first place.
10 years ago I remember taking a walk with my husband around the neighborhood where we lived. I had just begun to dive into the world of personal finance. And I remember asking him, “How long can an economy based on debt survive?” It’s impossible to predict the future. One terrorist attack or natural disaster could affect our ability to repay the debt.
Again, I’m not an economist, but I don’t think an economy based on debt can survive well, if at all. Eventually we’re going to have to pay the piper. We can take our lumps today, or we can incur more debt with a stimulus package, and our children can repay that debt tomorrow. Either way, we’re not going to get out of this mess easily.
That said, I’m also not a doom and gloom type person. I do believe things could get much worse before they get better. But I also believe that people are resilient, and we will survive. And not only survive, but learn and be better for it.
What do you think of the stimulus package? Will it work? Will it not? Why? And as usual, I welcome discussion and opposing viewpoints, as long as the discussion is respectful of me and anyone who comments. Saying why you disagree with someone is fine. Saying you think someone is stupid is not. Inflammatory comments will be removed.
Photo by Rob Crawley.
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{ 36 comments… read them below or add one }
I fundamentally don’t agree with more deficit spending especially with the $600 billion for the Iraq war, $160 billion stimulus checks, and the $700 billion in TARP funds. The past few years have been financed on credit. Unfortunately, that is the nature of our economy. Think of companies like VISA. Their business is entirely based on credit cards/electronic transactions.
However, on a more personally level, I really want the stimulus plan to pass. Here’s why: my wife will surely lose her job if it doesn’t. My wife is a high school teacher in a more rural school district. Because of this, most of their funds come from state appropriations. Since our state (Alabama) budgets as well as the federal government, they did not plan for any decrease in the budget. As a result, almost 4000 non-tenured teachers across the state are going to lose their jobs at the end of the year through no fault of their own.
My wife’s principal has even told her she is one of the best teachers in the school and wants to keep her. However, this doesn’t matter if the money is not there. Plus, here in Alabama, they are trying to change the regulations on the maximum number of students allowed in a classroom from 40 to 50 kids so they don’t get sued when they fire all those teachers. There are already 30+ kids per class in her school and there are 10 non-tenured teachers. It is ridiculous that children’s education is never planned for and can so easily be thrown to the side.
So to sum up: I fundamentally and nationally disagree with the stimulus plan but on a personally level I want it to save my wife’s job.
I am opposed to it. There are so many things in this package that we are not being told about. I also don’t believe handing over billions of dollars to financial institutions who pay their CEO’s millions of dollars while cutting more jobs is a great idea.
Sure the economy sucks right now. But shoving this package down our throats at break neck speed is just scary. It is going to get a lot worse and it really scares me.
Can’t people see the problem with this? It makes me worry about America. My aunt said on the phone the other day I can’t wait to get this stimulus package…??? What? Does she think she is getting money? All I have heard was a 1000.00 per househould, educational credit of maybe 2500.00. Sorry…1K is not going to make or break me.
Coco
Coco’s last blog post..TAGGED
I work for the state of Ohio in public health. Our state will be much more worse off if this doesn’t pass. My job and my husband’s, who also works for the state, will be in jeopardy- if not layoffs then pay cuts, higher insurance rates, reduction of hours, unpaid furloughs, and so forth. The city of Columbus has already done that to its employees (we live in Columbus).
As far as electronic medical records- it would be a boon in my opinion. I work with medical information and let me tell you, there are a million different databases with information and none of them can “speak” to each other properly. Your hospital’s info is stored differntly than your doctor’s office info than your dentist info than your Medicaid/Medicare info than… you get the idea.
Say you are an elderly person with three different doctors, two pharmacies, and you’re going into the hospital for a surgical procedure. You can’t remember the name of one of your doctors, you think you have an allergy to some antibiotic or another but you don’t remember, and gosh, are those little pills blood thinners?
Wouldn’t it be nice if all that info was in a single place? It would make care more efficient- fewer calls between providers, less duplication of services, less medical records processing time. It would decrease the cost of care in that there would likely be fewer medical mistakes, less accidental malpractice, etc, that we all end up paying for.
I have used infectious disease data and other types of data, and let me tell you, even when by law we in public health are allowed access (we are exempt from HIPAA)- it is difficult to impossible to get what we need, when we need it, in a format we can use. A solitary system could work wonders.
Jessica’s last blog post..Womanly Wednesday: I need more time!
@Jessica – It’s not so much the national database of health care records that bothers me. It’s the part that says the government will communicate with my doctor at beside to help him make decisions about my medical care. I have a huge problem with that and don’t understand what it’s doing in a stimulus package.
@Brian – I really feel for you and everyone affected by the economy. I pray that your wife is somehow able to keep her job.
@Lynnae-Thanks. We’re praying too. Great blog, keep it up.
The thing that kills me is that as an individual, you CAN’T get that much credit because creditors know you can’t possibly repay it all. The government isn’t being held to that same standard. And its OUR money they are overspending.
Our politicians are no longer working for us. Haven’t been for years. They will make bad decisions for kickbacks and power plays and walk away when their term is done. Then the government supports them and their medical care for the rest of their lives. What a deal.
Autumnesf’s last blog post..Autumn Asks: Are You Raising Kids, Or Are You Raising Adults?
I feel there is so much pork in this plan that it will be a long time before we are fully aware of all that is crammed in there. I am totally opposed to it at this time.
Perhaps when they take the time and don’t cram in things, such as abortions in foreign countries, and really do it right it will be a good thing. But only if it is done right. How is it possible that our entire enconomy is going to collapse in days if they don’t pass this.
Sounds like fear tactics to me… I am afraid. Very afraid.
Coco
Coco’s last blog post..POLITICS AS USUAL
I’m also against the stimulus packages. I smell “pork” in the air, and it seems much of what-little-we’ve-been-told-about-it will not be very “stimulating” to the overall economy. I don’t trust expanding government ……… because I am in my mid-50’s and have seen the government expand exponentially in my life-time and seen the not-so-good and sometimes really-bad results.
My prayers are with all who have lost or will lose their jobs (my familiy is affected, too) ………. but strapping our children and grandchildren with this horrific debt is no way to deal with this. There are other ways, but only for those who are willing to hear that government is not the sole answer; and our current government is not in a position of wanting to hear.
My 2 cents…many members of Congress see this as the golden opportunity to include pork that wouldn’t pass. Everyone’s scared and pushing for an immediate government fix so it’s easier to get pork through when everyone’s panicked.
What pork? There’s $25 million for new ATV trails, $20 million “for the removal of small- to medium-sized fish passage barriers” and $34 million to remodel the Department of Commerce HQ. It’s hard to see a direct connection to job creation in these items.
I’d love to see Congress allocate money for construction workers to repair our delapidated schools. In our district, the crumbling high school is over 90 years old, leaks and has caught fire from electrical wires held together with Duct tape. Levies to pay for repairs have repeatedly failed. How about putting construction workers to work on public spaces that our kids learn in?
@Francie – Amen on the schools! Our area closed down two schools in the last couple of years, because the buildings were so old, they were falling apart and deemed unsafe.
I agree. I think something needs to be done, but passing something in a hurry, before it can be fully evaluated by the people who elected our officials, is not a good idea. After all, we’re the ones who are going to be funding the pork projects. Or should I say, our children will be funding these pork projects.
I’m not sure about it’s true advantage or help in the long run. I can see certain needs being important….but much of it is fluff and ridiculous.
This past year my husband (a pastor) lost his job for 4 months. In that we also lost our health insurance. Once he gained employment the new job did not have an insurance plan in place. So….here my famiy of 5….hubby and I along with 3 teens sit with no insurance.
It has been tough!
We do not qualify for any medical coverage statewide due to just making enough money to put us over the mark. Very stressful!
The world is not coming to an end over the stimulus package…but it is a bit frustrating to people that are TRYING hard to make it…..and watching “fat-cats” blow money and get paid for things that are outlandish!
We cannot get away with such absurdity forever.
wanda’s last blog post..What’s all the fuss about?
I’m afraid that our elected leaders sometimes wish to be SEEN as doing something in response to a problem, in part because people want this problem (translate: my job) to be fixed right now. No administration can live up to that.
But honestly, I think government-based fix on this will not work short term or long term. That’s not how our economy works.
Lynnae, I hear you saying “It’s not so much the national database of health care records that bothers me. It’s the part that says the government will communicate with my doctor at beside to help him make decisions about my medical care.” The problem is your fear is based off of misinformation that is making the rounds. Here is some information I found in researching this. http://mediamatters.org/items/.....f=h_latest
I am for the stimulus package only because the gears of the economy are completely frozen and without it states in particular will have to make some deep, deep cuts. Those will affects schools, medicine, prisons, and everything else. I don’t like silly bridges to no-where and there are parts of this smell that do smell like pork, but in scale they are small and simply being used as red herrings to block desperately needed aid by a party desperate to reclaim the mantle of fiscal responsibility that they threw away when they had the levers of power for the last 8 years. As for some of the “pork” mentioned above I can see how they are in fact important stimulus. Building ATV trails can protect outfitters and sportsman by protecting habitat as well as putting people to work building the actual trail. Removing fish dams helps out fisherman, boat manufactures as well as put people to work doing the deconstruction. Remodeling federal buildings puts people to work as well as improves conservation of resources and efficiency of the government. I think the stimulus bills suffers from nostalgia from the CCC during the great depression. In the 21st century simply going around and building parks and roads is not enough to put everyone to work.
To the issue of spending the real work has to be done with defense budgets, entitlement programs, and inefficiencies in agencies. To deal with these it will take hard decisions involving more the grand standing by BOTH parties. This is why I am scared more than if the bill passes or doesn’t we have to get to work to solve these issues TOGETHER.
I am for the stimulus, even with all the ‘pork’ that may be included. As Ryan pointed out, spending this money will create jobs, and those workers will spend that money, and then maybe people will stop being so stingy with their money and actually spend a little extra.
Personally, I’ve worked less than 40 hours in the past four months, and it’s particularly brutal looking for work right now — especially as a freelancer. Yes, I am considering and applying for some FTE jobs and agency work, but those are few and far between, and have incredibly stiff competition.
As a freelancer, I can’t get unemployment benefits. Thankfully, I didn’t payoff my debt entirely, in what turned out to be the month before I lost my primary client. If I had, I would be penniless now, and have noone to significantly assist me (I’m single). I actually talked to the unemploymenet office a few weeks ago, and they said there may be special coverage for self-employed people in the stimulus package. I certainly hope so!! When I respond to ads for freelancers, I’m up against as many as 500 or more for a position. Take into account the number of people applying for that position, and consider what the client does…the LOWER the rate for that job. Now, I have to consider taking writing and editing jobs lower than my normal rates (which aren’t significantly high) — sometimes I’m looking at a greater than 50% fee cut. In fact, I turned down a website design job, because the woman would only spend $300, and my quote was for $800 — and a professional web designer would’ve charged in the ballpark of $2-3k. I’m primarily a technical writer, and I’ve seen ads from companies only willing to pay $10/hour for a technical writer. That’s beyond offensive, and only works out to *maybe* $6/hour after taxes. H*ll no. I’ve seen ads that pay janitors more than that.
THAT’s what the job market is right now. So yes, if the stimulus plan results in future debt, then fine. At least it will create a ton of new jobs, and help keep people out of the poor house. When the economy is stronger we can work on repaying that debt. If you look at http://www.speaker.gov/img/jobsrecessions.jpg, you will see pretty clearly that we are bordering on what could easily become a depression if something doesn’t happen very, very soon.
Shana’s last blog post..Lifewise is not so Budget Wise
Ack! Wish there was a way to edit stupid spelling errors…like “dilapidated.”
For the nation as a whole, I don’t think this stimulus package is the answer. It is too much pork and not enough beans. It needs to put people to work, not just bailout hot air.
Until accountability and personal responsibility come back into vogue within every family in the USA, we will continue to be in a world of hurt. The underlying problems of instant gratification and living beyond ones means have got to be turned around before any thing else will straighten out. Until that happens, the USA is just throwing good money after bad and the situation will keep on happening. My opinion only.
It’s what’s good for the nation as a whole that matters now, not for me personally.
Again, I really feel for everyone who is unemployed or underemployed, because of the economy. Believe me when I say I see where you’re coming from. People are out of work, and there are no jobs in town. But they can’t move, because they can’t sell their homes. I know it’s bad out there.
But passing a bill in haste that nobody seems to understand doesn’t fix the problem, and it could make it worse. Shana, you say “At least it will create a ton of new jobs, and help keep people out of the poor house. When the economy is stronger, we can work on repaying that debt.”
What if it doesn’t work? I don’t like banking on an unknown future to repay a debt that my children will be stuck with. I’d rather face the fact that our country has made incredibly irresponsible financial decisions from the government to the banks, and straight on down to the individual now, than face it in the future. My feeling is that we aren’t going to be able to gloss over all the financial irresponsibility without paying some kind of price either now or later. I’d rather pay it now.
Maybe we do need a stimulus package. But I’d rather it be one that is well thought out.
Ryan said, “To the issue of spending the real work has to be done with defense budgets, entitlement programs, and inefficiencies in agencies. To deal with these it will take hard decisions involving more the grand standing by BOTH parties.” I completely agree with him. That’s what needs to be done NOW. I just wish our elected officials on both sides of the aisle would get to work on it. The bill as it is doesn’t address any of this, as far as I’ve heard.
And as to the health records provision of the bill, it reads…
‘‘(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall perform the duties under subsection (c) in a manner consistent with the development of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and exchange of information and that—….
‘‘(4) provides appropriate information to help
guide medical decisions at the time and place of care;
The problem is it’s too vague. Ryan, I see where you’re coming from, that it’s supposed to mean the information in the records will help guide medical decisions. But the way it’s written, it could be taken to mean that the National Coordinator provides appropriate information to help guide medical decisions. All it takes is one court challenge to get the government involved in health care.
Our economy isn’t going to survive as things are. But rather than rushing to pass a bill that doesn’t make sense and mortgages my child’s future, I’d rather that congress work together to pass a well thought out bill that sticks to the issue at hand, without running up an exorbitant amount of debt. That’s what we elected them to do. They should do it.
*ponders* I’ve looked at both sides of this, and have decided that I’m cautiously for it. (Not that my opinion really matters, because it’s not my country, but being Canadian what America does affects me GREATLY)
Here’s why… 1) Sometimes, debt is good. Or at least neutral. I am very sick, and two years ago I stopped being able to work. At the same time, I left an abusive husband. Until I moved back home (and survived long enough to collect benefits), I’ve been living off my credit cards. I’ve been prudent about my spending, mostly, but still 100% deficit. My situation has now stabilized, and yes I’m looking at fifteen grand in new debt and that’s a scary number. BUT, I would not be in the position I am now, to pay it off, had I not found a way to SURVIVE. That’s what I see here. You mortgaging your future, so that the future can come.
2) Even the pork creates or keeps jobs. Who’s going to remove the barriers? Who’s going to build the ATV routes? *quirk* As your president says, don’t let the perfect stand in the way of the good enough.
3) In a perfect world, you wouldn’t do this. It flies in the face of all logic, and of course wouldn’t work. It’s ridiculous. The problem is… this isn’t a perfect world, and people aren’t logical. In a perfect world we’d all be communists, because on paper that’s the most logical system of government, and we all know how that plays out with real people. Representational government of whichever flavour (neither your country nor mine are actually democracies by the definition) are actually the least efficient system of government but continue to be the one that functions best consistently when you put real people in it. This problem is only 50% economical. It’s 50% emotional. People need SOMETHING to be done, some grand symbolic gesture to get them to STOP PANICKING and actually spend again. Not that I encourage the sort of waste that the system was based on before. There’s going to be a restructuring and it’s going to HURT, but it doesn’t have to be a DISASTER, but it’s going to be because everyone is flipping out and hiding their money under their beds again. And I mean that both individually and in groups like businesses. The banks that have the money are scared to let it go. The people who have the money are already eating ramen noodles like the pink slip has already come in. (It’s actually funny how much groups of people function just like individuals… but that’s a different topic)
On a related note and as a finishing thought… (Geez, I can go on…) In a pure capitalist system, what we should logically do is just let it all fall, and the strong will pick themselves up and the weak will perish. But we don’t want that. We want growth, but to be protected from the consequences of risk. This is what we’ve asked the government for, and that’s its job. To protect us from ourselves. Whether it’s right or not isn’t the question. It’s what we’ve told them to do, and we can’t blame them for doing it.
Flowers… @};-
Jasmin
“Maybe we need a stimulus package.” ??
I have to strongly (and respectfully) disagree.
Yes, there were some heinously bad decisions made by both individuals and banks. Yet how are they going to get out of that hole without a little bit of help? Based on an article I just read online, Caterpillar Inc issued 22,000 layoff notices just before the stimulus was approved, and they are now rescinding some of them because of the stimulus plan.
In addition, while I think we can all find different components of the plan we don’t like, we have to remember there are many good parts of the plan. Creating millions of jobs in this economy is not a bad thing…
Too, I believe in the adage “you have to spend money to make money.” I also believe that people that still have jobs have a duty to spend some of the money they are earning, instead of hoarding it entirely (I know people who hoard money, and rarely spend anything, and it drives me crazy). It doesn’t take much for a person or family to spend $50 a couple times a month to go out for dinner, go to the movies, or just buy a little something (book/CD/socks/whatever) they want. This amount of money will not break or greatly affect most budgets. A few months ago, I went to dinner with a friend, on a Friday night, and we were the only people in the restaurant. That’s just sad, and it wasn’t an expensive restaurant.
If there is no stimulus package, then how can the economy even start to be turned around? Do we have to wait years for things to balance out? Will I have to work as a janitor for $12/hour because I can’t find a job in my field that will pay more than $10/hour? I haven’t seen any non-stimulus ideas for how to jumpstart the economy, and I’d be interested to read about that, and to learn if there are viable alternatives. I can understand wanting a better structured plan, yet I think that the economy has gotten to the point that the time to be able to do that just isn’t there. Bush didn’t think there was a problem with the economy, and look where we are now –nothing was done and now thousands and thousands and thousands of people are without jobs, many of whom are certainly facing foreclosure not because they bought a home without proper assets, but because their jobs and savings are now gone.
Oh, and there is money earmarked for repairing and renovating schools included in the stimulus plan.
Shana’s last blog post..Lifewise is not so Budget Wise
My opinion….all it would take would be the mainstream media reporting how the economy is looking up, that things are stable, etc., etc. for a while to start to turn things around a little. Or at least it would HELP.
The reporting of the “awful” economy when things were really NOT is part of what got us here. Nobody wants to spend money when all they hear is how bad things are! Over Christmas, we heard how sales revenues were down 10% – well guess what? My family’s income can vary 10 – 20% from year to year, too! That doesn’t mean we’re going bankrupt! It means we WON’T SPEND AS MUCH on extras that year!
I teach personal finance in a high school. How can I teach my students to avoid unnecessary debt, when that’s precisely the way the leaders of our country handle it????
Shana – yes, you DO sometimes have to spend money to make money. But it should be money you have TO spend, not billions more borrowed dollars!
And I must disagree with your statement that it’s not a big deal to go out and spend $50. That is precisely the attitude that has gotten so many people in so much trouble in our country. I would rather SAVE some money so I can do the things I really want/need to do/have instead of spending $50 to take my family out to eat when I can cook at home for $10. Then I don’t have to borrow money later when my car breaks down or I have to replace my roof. And if I lose my job, I will have savings to fall back on so I have more time to look for a job and not have to take the $12/hr job right away. So yes, I think sometimes people DO have to take the $10 or $12/hr jobs to get them through. I think a lot of people might learn the importance of saving for a rainy day and not spending all they earn.
It is RESPONSIBLE to save your money to take care of your family! It is NOT my responsibility to spend frivolously on wants to protect others who did spend their money instead of saving it.
So much of the problem is that too much credit was extended to too many people. At some point it has to stop, and people have to pay back. Our country was living high on the hog for quite a while. Many people never had to learn the hard lessons of saving for a rainy day, or not buying unless you have the cash to pay for it. I think a lot of people are learning that lesson the hard way now. You can’t just spend and spend on whatever you want and there not be consequences! Many people are just not willing to go without the luxuries they’ve grown accustomed to (cable TV, big house, lots of clothes, vacations, eating out) to get the country through this.
Once this “stimulus” goes through, there will be inflation, so our money will not be worth as much – it will not go as far. Therefore, when our investments do start to come back, it will take just that much longer before they get back to what we started with!
Jasmin – the thing is, when this country was founded, it was not based on the government taking care of us, but on us taking care of ourselves. They wanted to get out of government control. THAT is freedom. I don’t want the government “taking care” of me in any sense of the word. They don’t know what’s best for me and my family. I would rather have that responsibility myself.
We seem to have come full circle as a country and now expect the government to take care of us and fix our problems. That is dependence, not freedom!
Hear, hear!
@ angie – A very true and valid point, and it’s why I always disclaimer my remarks on such things with “but I’m not American”. I do understand your system, both what it is and what it was set up to be, and it’s very different from what I know and am comfortable with. And that’s fine! :-) I admire your country’s history of tenacious individualism, and all the ways its made you strong. It works for you 99% of the time, and that’s the best you can hope for in any system that hopes to function in the real world.
I just respectfully disagree with the basic premise behind it, personally, and am glad it’s not my country, just as you I’m sure feel the same way. ;-) I like my country-as-a-family based system of semi-socialism. I like the no-man-left-behind clannish mentality, even with all of ITS inherent problems, and I am not an evangelical so can readily admit them.
I’m glad that you’re willing to take the pain with the freedom. You’re a credit to your country. Unfortunately, too many people right now in your country are not. See Brian’s comment above which comes down to no I don’t think it’s right but since it will save my hide I hope it passes. And so it will. Politics is a genii bottle. It gives you what you ask for, not what you perhaps need. I wish you, collectively, all the luck, I really do. I hope it’s enough of what you need hidden in there to make a difference.
I still maintain though, that the biggest problem is psychological. STOP PANICKING AMERICA. And that the right shiny symbolic gesture while outwardly and logically meaningless, could mean the difference between disaster and mere inconvenience. I don’t know if this is it. I hope it is, for everyone’s sakes.
Flowers… @};-
Jasmin
Why are you making it sound like $10-$12 /hour jobs are terrible? With the right attitude, they can be total freedom. I make $11/hour – yet am totally debt free. I Own a nice little home with a nice garden spot, mortgage free, and my 2001 Subaru and 2004 Silverado 44 are all paid for. No debt. And this is a single person household – no other earner around. BECAUSE I am used to spending wisely/frugally, I can go where I want and spend what I want, and only work 32 hours/week so I have a lot of leisure time.
All that on $11/hour. Not a bad deal in my opionion :) So don’t knock the $10-$12 hour jobs :)
typos….should be Silverado 4X4… sorry :(
Amy, I fear you misunderstand part of my last post. I’m not saying people should use credit or go into any kind of debt in spending a little ‘extra’ money each month. Also, I’ve lived four months so far on my emergency fund, and can live another 4-5 if I’m frugal enough. Though, I think we all know that most people do NOT have 8-9 months of living expenses in their cash savings accounts. A great number of people have barely $1000 or $2000. I’ve heard it said it now takes five months to find a new job. Does everyone have that kind of cash savings? Does anyone with a family have that kind of cash reserve?
Yes, you can make that dinner for $10, but what about the restaurant where I ate and my friend and I were the only diners? That’s waitstaff and a business potentially losing their livelihood because people are unwilling to spend $15 a person on a meal once or twice a month.
I’m all for people being financially responsible, saving for a rainy day and not abusing credit. I’m also all for people doing their part in helping the economy in times like these.
That said, I *do* go and spend some money in my community. :) Not a lot, but a little.
Spending a little extra money is not about bailing out those who made poor decisions, it’s about helping to support your local and national economy. Not spending any extra money just creates a greater chasm between those with money and those without, and increases the odds of a depression starting.
Remember, it took *20* years for the economy to recover after the depression starting in 1929 ended.
It’s not my intention to sound like I’m attacking anyone. It’s just, well, I feel quite strongly about this…
Shana’s last blog post..Lifewise is not so Budget Wise
Ah, Marci, I might feel the same way if I was in the position you seem to be in. Alas, I do not even have a mortgage, much less a paid-off mortgage.
My point was that I’m accustomed to billing much more than that, and that people think it’s now ok to request highly skilled work for savagely sub-par rates. I mean, when was the last time you heard of a janitor making more than a technical writer? ;)
Shana’s last blog post..Lifewise is not so Budget Wise
Jasmin – I agree with the DON’T PANIC! statement. And I am not an every man for himself kind of person. I just can’t stand the idea of the gov’t jumping in and saving everyone because we lived above our means as a whole for way too long. We didn’t live by good financial values, in general, and now it’s time to pay the piper. The more the gov’t gives, the more people will expect and the more we, as a country, will become dependent on the gov’t, and the more taxes we will pay so the gov’t can go on supporting us and spending our money unwisely…..that vicious cycle……..
Shana – my family (my husband and I and our 3 sons 13, 12, 10) does have at least a year’s worth of expenses saved by not spending frivolously. We rarely eat out, go to the movies, and spend very little on clothing. I do however pay a heck of a lot in taxes – which the gov’t wastes most of in my opinion. You cannot convince me to go spend more now. If we lose our jobs, we’ll need our savings to tide us over. I’m telling you, if we weren’t hearing 50X a day from the media how awful it is, we wouldn’t know any better and we would spend our money as usual. The media is fueling the panic.
Marci – YOU ROCK!!! You go girl!
Marci, as usual, you amaze me. Keep up with the smart money management!
I know it’s hard to take a huge pay cut when you’re accustomed to making more, but sometimes that’s what you have to do. In 2007 my husband lost his management job in the advertising department of our local newspaper. He was a salaried employee with great benefits. We had a small emergency fund, but not nearly enough to completely support us.
So my husband took various jobs over the next 6 months until he landed the job he had now. Those jobs included selling ads for a phone book company, radio advertising sales, and yes, janitorial work. He worked the 10 p.m. to 3 a.m. shift cleaning the local YMCA for several months. It wasn’t the greatest, but it paid the bills. Well, it paid the bills along with the sales jobs he was working during the day.
2007 was a really tough year. On the other hand, what we went through really made us realize that we needed to get control of our spending, save a great emergency fund, and pay off our debts, and we’re better people for it.
I guess I say all this, so you will all understand I don’t criticize the stimulus package lightly. It stinks to have to work two jobs to make ends meet. It stinks to lose two jobs in the course of one year. But let’s make sure the fix will actually fix the problem at hand, rather than prolong the problem into another generation.
@Jasmin-to clarify, I do think it’s a really bad idea to do more deficit spending. Yes, if my wife loses her job, we will probably be okay. She has a paycheck thru August and we already know we could survive on just my graduate student stipend.
The reasons I want the stimulus to pass are personal, but a bit more broad too. Other people are losing their jobs at government (state, local, etc) institutions basically because of their lack of planning. We plan, but why doesn’t the government? It makes the most sense, right? Plan for that rainy day? I guess I don’t understand why people didn’t see this coming. In the town where my parents live, they have been building houses like mad for the past couple of years. Back in 2006, I remembering asking them, “Where is all the money coming from to buy these houses?”…well, now I know. That’s why there are 5-10 houses on every street that are for sale. I guess I just feel like we’ve seen this history before and have learned NOTHING. There’s good times and bad. That’s the nature of most economies.
I really don’t actually want the stimulus to pass because I think people should have to face the consequences of their actions. If they overspent and didn’t save, it really is only their own fault (in most cases, I realize there are exceptions to everything–e.g., lots unexpected medical expenses, etc). I think the government should be responsible too. Why can’t they have an Emergency Fund with one year’s of operating costs? I think they should have to. I guess I am just upset with the lack of responsibility going around. I think it’s dumb.
I don’t exactly know what I am trying to say anymore, so I’ll stop.
@Angie, Really agree with you on the media “doom and gloom” message. I’m not saying they can’t report the news, but the difference between this recession and the Great Depression is we are oversaturated with gloomy news 24-7. CNN and Twitter didn’t exist then.
Stemkoski.com has a post on this very topic saying, “During the Great Depression news was controlled by publishers. News good or bad arrived much slower. There were much fewer sources of news and the news that did arrive was filtered at least to some. During the Great Depression positive news and talk of the New Deal as well as the physical effect of the New Deal and the influx of money into the economy eventually helped pull the United States out of the Great Depression.”
@brian – I appreciate your honesty and confusion. It’s hard to put the frustration into words. We don’t want people to suffer, because there really ARE some circumstances that lead to financial difficulties/ruin that are beyond people’s control. HOWEVER! A HUGE majority of the dire situations are due to bad decisions with no immediate consequences. And those problems might have their roots way back in high school when they chose not to take advantage of a free education so they could have better options after high school. I try to instill that into my students everyday. Make ALL your decisions EVERYDAY based on opening doors for your future instead of closing them.
I think your parents must live in my community. I often wondered where the money was coming from as well for all that new construction. Because I was pretty sure my family’s financial situation was better than many of those folks’ situations, yet I knew they were also “spending” (borrowing apparently) more than us. If you’ve got the money, and want to take the risk, you can get one heck of a good deal on a nice house these days!
We as a society are spoiled! We think we deserve whatever we want whenever we want it. Most have not had to deal with real financial adversity before. Now that difficult decisions are having to be made, folks don’t want to sacrifice. It’s uncomfortable and yes, scary at times. I think it’s important to keep things in perspective. John Stossel had a great segment on this. Even most of the poor in the US are not really POOR. Compare to India, Africa, etc. Many of our “poor” have places to live, tv’s, cable, computers/internet, and resources to have plenty of healthy food to eat – not necessarily LOTS of food, or their favorite foods.
It is encouraging to read so many posts from people who are and have been willing to make those tough decisions and sacrifice their wants to be financialy responsible. I agree. We MUST hold the government to the same standards…but HOW?????
I think we need to do something. Is this the best solution? We won’t know for a while.
By the way, pork is in almost every bill that comes up. This is no different, but because of the price tag it’s just being scrutinized more closely.
This pork is a pig with wings (stimulus) taped onto it…no matter how it is packaged, it won’t fly! I believe it is wrong for the stimulus to get pushed through, listen to what Paul Ryan, representative from Wisconsin says on it. Every minute that stimulus was delayed more information kept coming out about it…and more people didn’t like it. It is setting our country down the path for socialism.
People & the government need to stop using credit…and start paying off their debt as fast as they can. We all need to start preparing for the worse.
The medical information part is scary…people could steal my identity and mess up my health records. It is opening up the door for the government to decide on people’s care…ex. this person is too old for additional medical care/$ spent on them since they don’t have many years left.
I do not like the direction our country is headed. We have come too far from the godly foundation this country was started on.
Late — but relevant — response
Folks,
I believe so many of your posts are right on target. All this stimulus package achieves is making future generations pay for our “beyond our means” culture. Going into tremendous debt to “stimulate our economy” is short-sited.
Social Security is a great example. Well-meaning forefathers devised this program so that the elderly and ill would be protected. I believe SSI is a great thing, but look at what was done with it. The government borrowed from our REQUIRED contributions (matchd by our employers) to fund other things. Where are we now? Certainly, anyone my age (Gen-X) or younger will never receive a dime from what we paid. The same goes for the stimulus package — future generations will have to pay for poor decisions and will be impoverished.
In addition to disagreement with all of the porks in the package, the very signage of the act proved irresponsible. (Warning: this may offend Obama fans.) Instead of signing the bill in Washington, our president flew to Denver to sign it. Can you imagine how much that cost? It’s not like he just booked a coach flight with a discount airline. Any trip on Airforce One is quite expensive. It required numerous other planes to fly along with, immeasurable security measures in Denver, etc. The media portrayed this choice as brilliance to “get out of the muck of Washington.” That is nonsense!
Thanks,
Diana