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	<title>Comments on: (Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents &#8211; The Rise and Fall of the Middle Class</title>
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	<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/</link>
	<description>Saving money and getting out of debt from a Christian SAHM perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-8050</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 23:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-8050</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t disagree more with this post.  &quot;Times Change&quot; is far too simplistic a phrase to describe the current economic climate.  And we can blame the government for taxing us to death.  Each and every person I know going through tough economic times is doing so because of a job loss,like myself, or health issues.  Yes, there may be 1% of the population who overspends.  However, to blame folks who lose their health or jobs is to perpetuate the gap between the most wealthy and the impoverished.  Shame on everyone who agrees with this misguided view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t disagree more with this post.  &#8220;Times Change&#8221; is far too simplistic a phrase to describe the current economic climate.  And we can blame the government for taxing us to death.  Each and every person I know going through tough economic times is doing so because of a job loss,like myself, or health issues.  Yes, there may be 1% of the population who overspends.  However, to blame folks who lose their health or jobs is to perpetuate the gap between the most wealthy and the impoverished.  Shame on everyone who agrees with this misguided view.</p>
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		<title>By: Don&#8217;t Feed the Alligators &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekly Feeding 4-28-2008</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7865</link>
		<dc:creator>Don&#8217;t Feed the Alligators &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekly Feeding 4-28-2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7865</guid>
		<description>[...] at BeingFrugal.net posted the next installment of her (Not) Keeping Up with the Middle Class review. I still agree that personal responsibility is priority one, but many comments continue to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at BeingFrugal.net posted the next installment of her (Not) Keeping Up with the Middle Class review. I still agree that personal responsibility is priority one, but many comments continue to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Debt Reduction Formula</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7713</link>
		<dc:creator>Debt Reduction Formula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7713</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s too easy to draw incorrect conclusions from limited data. And it&#039;s easy to look at only a few things in history and say it caused a certain situation.

But oversimplifying just gets us in trouble.

For instance, saying FDR rescued us from The Great Depression is tenuous at best. Some historians say his New Deal actually lengthened the depression.

Anyway, I feel like the middle class has experienced financial difficulties for reasons too many to list: pride/ego, widespread use of debt to fund consumption, inflation caused by &quot;Easy Al&quot; Greenspan, etc.

Ultimately, I believe the nation&#039;s current difficulties are divine judgment for ignoring God&#039;s law. We were sold to Babylon in 1913/1914 with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act.

On Saturday, April 26, there is a national day of prayer and repentance. President Bush will be participating. Please consider participating, too.

http://www.reigndownusa.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s too easy to draw incorrect conclusions from limited data. And it&#8217;s easy to look at only a few things in history and say it caused a certain situation.</p>
<p>But oversimplifying just gets us in trouble.</p>
<p>For instance, saying FDR rescued us from The Great Depression is tenuous at best. Some historians say his New Deal actually lengthened the depression.</p>
<p>Anyway, I feel like the middle class has experienced financial difficulties for reasons too many to list: pride/ego, widespread use of debt to fund consumption, inflation caused by &#8220;Easy Al&#8221; Greenspan, etc.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I believe the nation&#8217;s current difficulties are divine judgment for ignoring God&#8217;s law. We were sold to Babylon in 1913/1914 with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act.</p>
<p>On Saturday, April 26, there is a national day of prayer and repentance. President Bush will be participating. Please consider participating, too.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reigndownusa.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.reigndownusa.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: MITBeta @ Don't Feed The Alligators</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7698</link>
		<dc:creator>MITBeta @ Don't Feed The Alligators</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7698</guid>
		<description>Cutting taxes on the richest of Americans while failing to cut, or increasing spending inevitably ends up squeezing the middle class and their kids (and grandkids...).

Once again, I agree that people have to take responsibility for their own situations.  But there is no reason that EVERYONE in the richest country on Earth should not be able to afford health care, a quality education, and maybe a big screen TV.  

I&#039;m not suggesting we should all have yachts, but too many personal finance websites focus on denial of wants to bring financial harmony.  But just like dieting, it doesn&#039;t end when the debt is gone, it&#039;s a lifelong process of denial of things that middle class people should be able to afford...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cutting taxes on the richest of Americans while failing to cut, or increasing spending inevitably ends up squeezing the middle class and their kids (and grandkids&#8230;).</p>
<p>Once again, I agree that people have to take responsibility for their own situations.  But there is no reason that EVERYONE in the richest country on Earth should not be able to afford health care, a quality education, and maybe a big screen TV.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting we should all have yachts, but too many personal finance websites focus on denial of wants to bring financial harmony.  But just like dieting, it doesn&#8217;t end when the debt is gone, it&#8217;s a lifelong process of denial of things that middle class people should be able to afford&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lynnae</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7667</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7667</guid>
		<description>Joshua,

That&#039;s a really interesting perspective, and I think there&#039;s some merit to your ideas.  I know that I can say even when we were probably technically in the lower class, we always felt middle class.  But my husband and I have always been very involved in all sorts of different things with our community and with our family.

I would love to see a study like the one you mentioned!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a really interesting perspective, and I think there&#8217;s some merit to your ideas.  I know that I can say even when we were probably technically in the lower class, we always felt middle class.  But my husband and I have always been very involved in all sorts of different things with our community and with our family.</p>
<p>I would love to see a study like the one you mentioned!</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7665</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7665</guid>
		<description>Hello everyone,

I&#039;ve enjoyed reading the first two chapter reviews and everyone&#039;s comments, and I&#039;d like to add a thought or two of my own.

Most of the definitions of the middle class in the discussion so far have focused on property and finances: What do the middle classes own and what can they afford?

I would like to suggest, that membership in the middle class is not based on income and assets, but on a set of values specific to this class: Liberal Arts education (as opposed to a business track degree), life-long learning (reading, visiting museums, historical sites, evening and weekend classes), participation in civic affairs, contribution of time and talents to community projects, an interest in other countries and cultures, ample free time spent with one&#039;s children, active involvement in the children&#039;s education (reading aloud to children, introducing them to the library, helping them with their homework, participating in PTA activities), a healthy amount of self-respect (which expresses itself in a healthy lifestyle), loyalty to family and friends, and common courtesy in interacting with neighbours and strangers.

The discription of her life made by a contributor to the discussion of the first chapter of this book, a woman named Liz, illustrates my ideas quite well.

Social class is a matter of attitude more than money.

***

It would be interesting to do a study comparing the level of civic participation in communities, and the self-evaluation of the middle class in those communities. I&#039;d be willing to wager that communities with a high level of civic participation also have a confident and secure middle class.



Kind regards,
Joshua</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve enjoyed reading the first two chapter reviews and everyone&#8217;s comments, and I&#8217;d like to add a thought or two of my own.</p>
<p>Most of the definitions of the middle class in the discussion so far have focused on property and finances: What do the middle classes own and what can they afford?</p>
<p>I would like to suggest, that membership in the middle class is not based on income and assets, but on a set of values specific to this class: Liberal Arts education (as opposed to a business track degree), life-long learning (reading, visiting museums, historical sites, evening and weekend classes), participation in civic affairs, contribution of time and talents to community projects, an interest in other countries and cultures, ample free time spent with one&#8217;s children, active involvement in the children&#8217;s education (reading aloud to children, introducing them to the library, helping them with their homework, participating in PTA activities), a healthy amount of self-respect (which expresses itself in a healthy lifestyle), loyalty to family and friends, and common courtesy in interacting with neighbours and strangers.</p>
<p>The discription of her life made by a contributor to the discussion of the first chapter of this book, a woman named Liz, illustrates my ideas quite well.</p>
<p>Social class is a matter of attitude more than money.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>It would be interesting to do a study comparing the level of civic participation in communities, and the self-evaluation of the middle class in those communities. I&#8217;d be willing to wager that communities with a high level of civic participation also have a confident and secure middle class.</p>
<p>Kind regards,<br />
Joshua</p>
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		<title>By: LJ</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7659</link>
		<dc:creator>LJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7659</guid>
		<description>LOL, I just have to respond to Debt Free Revolution-

I agree and I look forward to seeing pictures of your militia-esque perimeter :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, I just have to respond to Debt Free Revolution-</p>
<p>I agree and I look forward to seeing pictures of your militia-esque perimeter :)</p>
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		<title>By: Debt Free Revolution</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7642</link>
		<dc:creator>Debt Free Revolution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7642</guid>
		<description>First of all, I don&#039;t thin k we are having a &quot;middle class crunch&quot; I think we are having a DEBT crunch.  The government shares part of the blame (not necessarily the president, but the govt as a whole) with irresponsible spending and borrowing with little regard to where the money will come from when the bills come due.  These are our &quot;leaders&quot;?

The Federal Reserve also shares the blame for the current economic situation.  Artificially low interest rates spurred on irresponsible borrowing, and now the FOMC&#039;s solution is to lower the interest rates even more ... and all the while our dollar is worth less on the global market and inflation is taking a noticeable bite out of the average person who actually does buy food and gasoline.

This book you are reading sounds very negative.  I would have thrown it across the room at least a few times by now.  Elizabeth Warren&#039;s books also sound quite depressing and negative.  The problem is, for a lot of people these books are their reality, because they haven&#039;t been taught a better way.  Marketing and ignorance are taking their toll on our current society with a vengence!

I don&#039;t have the answers for the country or society, but I know I (edit) sure have the answers for myself and my family: no more consumer debt and build up a big emergency fund regardless of how bad Panic Boy Ben (Bernake) screws us on the interest rate.

Of course, if it gets too much worse, I may stimulate the economy by buying guns, ammo, and canned food ... then set up a good Army-style perimeter around my property.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, I don&#8217;t thin k we are having a &#8220;middle class crunch&#8221; I think we are having a DEBT crunch.  The government shares part of the blame (not necessarily the president, but the govt as a whole) with irresponsible spending and borrowing with little regard to where the money will come from when the bills come due.  These are our &#8220;leaders&#8221;?</p>
<p>The Federal Reserve also shares the blame for the current economic situation.  Artificially low interest rates spurred on irresponsible borrowing, and now the FOMC&#8217;s solution is to lower the interest rates even more &#8230; and all the while our dollar is worth less on the global market and inflation is taking a noticeable bite out of the average person who actually does buy food and gasoline.</p>
<p>This book you are reading sounds very negative.  I would have thrown it across the room at least a few times by now.  Elizabeth Warren&#8217;s books also sound quite depressing and negative.  The problem is, for a lot of people these books are their reality, because they haven&#8217;t been taught a better way.  Marketing and ignorance are taking their toll on our current society with a vengence!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have the answers for the country or society, but I know I (edit) sure have the answers for myself and my family: no more consumer debt and build up a big emergency fund regardless of how bad Panic Boy Ben (Bernake) screws us on the interest rate.</p>
<p>Of course, if it gets too much worse, I may stimulate the economy by buying guns, ammo, and canned food &#8230; then set up a good Army-style perimeter around my property.</p>
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		<title>By: Shanti @ Antishay</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7641</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanti @ Antishay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7641</guid>
		<description>This is a great analysis of our middle class today, and indeed of our entire society. I agree wholeheartedly that the government can&#039;t be held responsible for our individual lives - we have to take care of ourselves the best we can and the government should be there to help us when we need it. If we all stand with our hands open to the gov&#039;t, calling for &quot;more! more!&quot; while doing nothing ourselves but moping about how we&#039;re getting nowhere, that will be to our ruin.

Thanks for this thought-provoking review! I don&#039;t mind if you drag the review out over many weeks - as long as the book keeps you writing like this! Thanks :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great analysis of our middle class today, and indeed of our entire society. I agree wholeheartedly that the government can&#8217;t be held responsible for our individual lives &#8211; we have to take care of ourselves the best we can and the government should be there to help us when we need it. If we all stand with our hands open to the gov&#8217;t, calling for &#8220;more! more!&#8221; while doing nothing ourselves but moping about how we&#8217;re getting nowhere, that will be to our ruin.</p>
<p>Thanks for this thought-provoking review! I don&#8217;t mind if you drag the review out over many weeks &#8211; as long as the book keeps you writing like this! Thanks :)</p>
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		<title>By: LJ</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/21/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-7638</link>
		<dc:creator>LJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=666#comment-7638</guid>
		<description>Great thoughts, I got a copy of the book and plan to review it myself...if only I could find the time to read it!

Politics aside, I do feel that something has gone wrong with the middle class...they want to be rich, even if it means being in debt up to their eyeballs they seem to want more more more.

I can&#039;t wait to hear more about the book and read it myself!

Take Care

LJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great thoughts, I got a copy of the book and plan to review it myself&#8230;if only I could find the time to read it!</p>
<p>Politics aside, I do feel that something has gone wrong with the middle class&#8230;they want to be rich, even if it means being in debt up to their eyeballs they seem to want more more more.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t wait to hear more about the book and read it myself!</p>
<p>Take Care</p>
<p>LJ</p>
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