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	<title>Comments on: (Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents</title>
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	<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/</link>
	<description>Saving money and getting out of debt from a Christian SAHM perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Suze Orman Promotes the Victim Mentality &#124; Momma's Blog</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-14167</link>
		<dc:creator>Suze Orman Promotes the Victim Mentality &#124; Momma's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-14167</guid>
		<description>[...] at Being Frugal is writing a review of (Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents and so far, alot of the comments really resonate with me. Entitlement mentality, Victim mentality, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at Being Frugal is writing a review of (Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents and so far, alot of the comments really resonate with me. Entitlement mentality, Victim mentality, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lou D</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-10742</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-10742</guid>
		<description>In -Not Making It Like Mom and Dad, Nan Mooney laments that under 40-something professionals are struggling to achieve the same lifestyle as their parents. Does she really think that under 60-something people had it that much easier?  During the 1974 - 1982 period,  inflation averaged about  9 percent, topping out at over 13 percent. The unemployment rate averaged about 7.2 percent, reaching over 9.5 percent, and this period was also marked by two separate, oil shocks.  This in addition to the ensuing tumultuous political environment affecting the United States both domestically, and internationally. She then continues about being a “college-educated professional’ without being specific to what her vocation is, or why she automatically deserves to afford the lifestyle she desires regardless of her personal or  career choices.

Her viewpoints concerning stagnating middle income wages, growing gap between rich and poor have some merit. However the majority of  people in past decades also endured paltry health insurance, retirement plans, and in fact, no allowances for child care. She attempts to explain the mythology about America consumerism as being something other then a lack of moral character, avarice, and greed,. Missing are such traditional American concepts as frugality, virtue, and dare I mention chastity. She portrays her own personal decision to become a single parent and to burden herself and child on her aging parents as a “creative solution”, and “recalibration of her life“. Is she really serious? And then furthermore becomes insolent enough to exalt a couple who deny their own child a house and so-called middle class comforts in order to sojourn to South America for six months, and for whose real benefit?  She is  audacious enough to tell the rest of us how we should understand our finances, and lower our own expectations while demanding increased big government support for childcare, healthcare, housing, and retirement programs. All naturally directed to irresponsible single parents like herself. 



Growing up in lower middle-class circumstances at an early age I was taught the difference between wants and needs, and to take responsibility for my own actions. I was also made aware on how some of my more brainless decisions  might have a negative affect on the rest of my family.  There is a marked difference between people who are truly altruistic and those that are ethical egotists. And even more so between those that consider themselves to be individuals and those that are narcissistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In -Not Making It Like Mom and Dad, Nan Mooney laments that under 40-something professionals are struggling to achieve the same lifestyle as their parents. Does she really think that under 60-something people had it that much easier?  During the 1974 &#8211; 1982 period,  inflation averaged about  9 percent, topping out at over 13 percent. The unemployment rate averaged about 7.2 percent, reaching over 9.5 percent, and this period was also marked by two separate, oil shocks.  This in addition to the ensuing tumultuous political environment affecting the United States both domestically, and internationally. She then continues about being a “college-educated professional’ without being specific to what her vocation is, or why she automatically deserves to afford the lifestyle she desires regardless of her personal or  career choices.</p>
<p>Her viewpoints concerning stagnating middle income wages, growing gap between rich and poor have some merit. However the majority of  people in past decades also endured paltry health insurance, retirement plans, and in fact, no allowances for child care. She attempts to explain the mythology about America consumerism as being something other then a lack of moral character, avarice, and greed,. Missing are such traditional American concepts as frugality, virtue, and dare I mention chastity. She portrays her own personal decision to become a single parent and to burden herself and child on her aging parents as a “creative solution”, and “recalibration of her life“. Is she really serious? And then furthermore becomes insolent enough to exalt a couple who deny their own child a house and so-called middle class comforts in order to sojourn to South America for six months, and for whose real benefit?  She is  audacious enough to tell the rest of us how we should understand our finances, and lower our own expectations while demanding increased big government support for childcare, healthcare, housing, and retirement programs. All naturally directed to irresponsible single parents like herself. </p>
<p>Growing up in lower middle-class circumstances at an early age I was taught the difference between wants and needs, and to take responsibility for my own actions. I was also made aware on how some of my more brainless decisions  might have a negative affect on the rest of my family.  There is a marked difference between people who are truly altruistic and those that are ethical egotists. And even more so between those that consider themselves to be individuals and those that are narcissistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Book Review: (Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents &#124; Prime Time Money</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-10340</link>
		<dc:creator>Book Review: (Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents &#124; Prime Time Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-10340</guid>
		<description>[...] a deeper dive into the book, please visit the chapter-by-chapter review by Being Frugal.  See an additional review at Alpha Consumer, and the US News interview with author Nan [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a deeper dive into the book, please visit the chapter-by-chapter review by Being Frugal.  See an additional review at Alpha Consumer, and the US News interview with author Nan [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Smilie Saturday: Linky Love Weekend Roundup Second Edition &#124; Telling It Like It Is</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-8587</link>
		<dc:creator>Smilie Saturday: Linky Love Weekend Roundup Second Edition &#124; Telling It Like It Is</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 11:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-8587</guid>
		<description>[...] has begun a series of posts called (Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents, where Lynnae discusses her thoughts on the book &#8220;(Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents: The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has begun a series of posts called (Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents, where Lynnae discusses her thoughts on the book &#8220;(Not) Keeping Up With Our Parents: The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Keeping Up With the Joneses - All About Appearances &#124; Frugal Dad</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-8513</link>
		<dc:creator>Keeping Up With the Joneses - All About Appearances &#124; Frugal Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 11:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-8513</guid>
		<description>[...] at BeingFrugal.net has been reviewing the book, (Not) Keeping Up with Our Parents. Her posts have caused some [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at BeingFrugal.net has been reviewing the book, (Not) Keeping Up with Our Parents. Her posts have caused some [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ann E. Bermingham</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-8054</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann E. Bermingham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 01:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-8054</guid>
		<description>If one wants to get out from under the credit card debt or the desire to &quot;have it all&quot; I would encourage them to look into Voluntary Simplicity.  Google it.

But I also am aware that companies, corporations and government feel that they are less responsible for anyone.  No health care, no retirement funds, no guarentee of any future at all.  So maybe that is why there is need to &quot;have it all now&quot;, because no is expecting to be here tomorrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one wants to get out from under the credit card debt or the desire to &#8220;have it all&#8221; I would encourage them to look into Voluntary Simplicity.  Google it.</p>
<p>But I also am aware that companies, corporations and government feel that they are less responsible for anyone.  No health care, no retirement funds, no guarentee of any future at all.  So maybe that is why there is need to &#8220;have it all now&#8221;, because no is expecting to be here tomorrow.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-8041</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 14:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-8041</guid>
		<description>Just read your post in the Chicago newspaper.  I am older and kind of stuck in a no mans land where the rules and standards have changed so much I no longer know anymore what is the right way to deal with things.  I never expected my parents to send me to college, you either did well in school and got scholarships or paid your own way through.  I don&#039;t think you could even get grants till your Jr. year because you had to make an investment and show good grades or you didn&#039;t get them.  I worked my way through as a cocktail waitress.  I moved and lived in the state for year before I went so I could get in-state tuition.  Many act like you must be college bound immediatly after highschool....I was a much better student with a few real living years under my belt....I was going to learn....not party.  But it&#039;s strange to think I could work, share rent and all the bills and fully pay for my tuition and books and come out not owing a dime.  I cringe at what tuition is now.  I shared a 4 bedroom 2 bath home with 3 other girls....50 bucks a month was our rent each.  You can&#039;t rent a cheap motel room for a night on that now.  I did it as a cocktail waitress....made atleast 500 bucks a week part time.  Hasn&#039;t been many years where I made that much even with a degree.  When I graduated and started working I made 12.50 an hour which was good money back then considering 3.25 was minimum wage....now that same job pays 6.50.  Education and 20 years of experience and that&#039;s it.  Sad.  My dad said work hard, be honest, pay your dues and it will reward you in the end.  I worked hard, honest, paid my dues and the second things would start to look good, you&#039;re ousted because they can hire someone to do it for cheaper...or it&#039;s outsourced...or they close.  Think that experience gives you an edge?  Nope...might get you the job, but you start right back at square one.  It used to be you never insulted an adult by giving them minimum wage.  That was date money for 1st time, part time workers.  Thing is though...if you worked 40 hr.s you could get by....you can&#039;t anymore.  You got your home and your extra car because your wife worked but the husbands pay always covered basic expenses and then you had your kids and your wife stayed home till they started school and then she&#039;d go back part time or so and that&#039;s where you got the money for the extras for the kids.  If dad lost his job....moms pay would get you through till he found work again.  As long as you kept your nose clean and weren&#039;t stupid...it wasn&#039;t all that hard to move ahead...cover your needs, base your wants on what you could afford and even put money in the bank.  

I saw the change when they started getting rid of older people simply because they could dump them for someone for cheaper pay, when they could fire you for no reason or create one to where you couldn&#039;t qualify for un-employment, when rent was more than buying a house, when you were too afraid to hire the boy down the street to mow your lawn for fear of being sued if a rock kicked back and hurt him, (that hurt us as well as the kids who have had so many jobs taken away to where they never learn when they are young about working to earn money etc)  Don&#039;t see many paper boys and girls anymore. Not safe anymore. I used to babysit for 50 cents an hour....now thats even risky on both sides.....even at 12 bucks an hour now. (Seriously the going rate here for a highschool babysitter)  You used to be able to fix your own car, there weren&#039;t bans on washing your car in your driveway, you didn&#039;t sue your neighbor because your kid fell out of there tree or skinned their knee on your sidewalk.  I could go on and on and on with how the world is so different now and I still don&#039;t have an answer...I did the same things my parents did and I got an education, which should have given me a leg up.....but they changed all the rules mid-stream and I never got the rule book.  Like the person above....for every step forward...there&#039;s something comming along to put you 3 steps behind.  If costs are rising I&#039;m not paying for what I did wrong....I&#039;m paying to cover for the mistakes of others so the top dog doesn&#039;t loose. (Like bank fees will go up, new standards to meet, higher fees, it&#039;s not that it really costs more...they pass there losses down to those who do pay.) Doesn&#039;t make any difference how much I cut back.....I can guarentee I&#039;m going to pay more next year....whether it be from here or because of &quot;global demand&quot;.  It&#039;s going to be a hard fall for many who start already in debt because I know what a struggle it is now to just maintain and keep what I already own when I&#039;m living within my means....and getting older with less job oppertunites and still needing to live.  I don&#039;t have credit cards and won&#039;t buy what I can&#039;t afford....but some person in the city can drive by and say I need a new roof and if I don&#039;t do it in x amount of time....they can take my home because of housing codes.  Even though it&#039;s fully paid for.  We all fight to have something and then you have to fight to keep what you own.  Now is just wondering how to counter the moves and plan ahead before they change the rules again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read your post in the Chicago newspaper.  I am older and kind of stuck in a no mans land where the rules and standards have changed so much I no longer know anymore what is the right way to deal with things.  I never expected my parents to send me to college, you either did well in school and got scholarships or paid your own way through.  I don&#8217;t think you could even get grants till your Jr. year because you had to make an investment and show good grades or you didn&#8217;t get them.  I worked my way through as a cocktail waitress.  I moved and lived in the state for year before I went so I could get in-state tuition.  Many act like you must be college bound immediatly after highschool&#8230;.I was a much better student with a few real living years under my belt&#8230;.I was going to learn&#8230;.not party.  But it&#8217;s strange to think I could work, share rent and all the bills and fully pay for my tuition and books and come out not owing a dime.  I cringe at what tuition is now.  I shared a 4 bedroom 2 bath home with 3 other girls&#8230;.50 bucks a month was our rent each.  You can&#8217;t rent a cheap motel room for a night on that now.  I did it as a cocktail waitress&#8230;.made atleast 500 bucks a week part time.  Hasn&#8217;t been many years where I made that much even with a degree.  When I graduated and started working I made 12.50 an hour which was good money back then considering 3.25 was minimum wage&#8230;.now that same job pays 6.50.  Education and 20 years of experience and that&#8217;s it.  Sad.  My dad said work hard, be honest, pay your dues and it will reward you in the end.  I worked hard, honest, paid my dues and the second things would start to look good, you&#8217;re ousted because they can hire someone to do it for cheaper&#8230;or it&#8217;s outsourced&#8230;or they close.  Think that experience gives you an edge?  Nope&#8230;might get you the job, but you start right back at square one.  It used to be you never insulted an adult by giving them minimum wage.  That was date money for 1st time, part time workers.  Thing is though&#8230;if you worked 40 hr.s you could get by&#8230;.you can&#8217;t anymore.  You got your home and your extra car because your wife worked but the husbands pay always covered basic expenses and then you had your kids and your wife stayed home till they started school and then she&#8217;d go back part time or so and that&#8217;s where you got the money for the extras for the kids.  If dad lost his job&#8230;.moms pay would get you through till he found work again.  As long as you kept your nose clean and weren&#8217;t stupid&#8230;it wasn&#8217;t all that hard to move ahead&#8230;cover your needs, base your wants on what you could afford and even put money in the bank.  </p>
<p>I saw the change when they started getting rid of older people simply because they could dump them for someone for cheaper pay, when they could fire you for no reason or create one to where you couldn&#8217;t qualify for un-employment, when rent was more than buying a house, when you were too afraid to hire the boy down the street to mow your lawn for fear of being sued if a rock kicked back and hurt him, (that hurt us as well as the kids who have had so many jobs taken away to where they never learn when they are young about working to earn money etc)  Don&#8217;t see many paper boys and girls anymore. Not safe anymore. I used to babysit for 50 cents an hour&#8230;.now thats even risky on both sides&#8230;..even at 12 bucks an hour now. (Seriously the going rate here for a highschool babysitter)  You used to be able to fix your own car, there weren&#8217;t bans on washing your car in your driveway, you didn&#8217;t sue your neighbor because your kid fell out of there tree or skinned their knee on your sidewalk.  I could go on and on and on with how the world is so different now and I still don&#8217;t have an answer&#8230;I did the same things my parents did and I got an education, which should have given me a leg up&#8230;..but they changed all the rules mid-stream and I never got the rule book.  Like the person above&#8230;.for every step forward&#8230;there&#8217;s something comming along to put you 3 steps behind.  If costs are rising I&#8217;m not paying for what I did wrong&#8230;.I&#8217;m paying to cover for the mistakes of others so the top dog doesn&#8217;t loose. (Like bank fees will go up, new standards to meet, higher fees, it&#8217;s not that it really costs more&#8230;they pass there losses down to those who do pay.) Doesn&#8217;t make any difference how much I cut back&#8230;..I can guarentee I&#8217;m going to pay more next year&#8230;.whether it be from here or because of &#8220;global demand&#8221;.  It&#8217;s going to be a hard fall for many who start already in debt because I know what a struggle it is now to just maintain and keep what I already own when I&#8217;m living within my means&#8230;.and getting older with less job oppertunites and still needing to live.  I don&#8217;t have credit cards and won&#8217;t buy what I can&#8217;t afford&#8230;.but some person in the city can drive by and say I need a new roof and if I don&#8217;t do it in x amount of time&#8230;.they can take my home because of housing codes.  Even though it&#8217;s fully paid for.  We all fight to have something and then you have to fight to keep what you own.  Now is just wondering how to counter the moves and plan ahead before they change the rules again.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-7854</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-7854</guid>
		<description>Tim...

You should take a look at Elizabeth&#039;s Warren&#039;s numbers.  She makes a good argument that it&#039;s not actually the TVs and iPods (or even the food...which is cheaper now that 30 years ago) that&#039;s causing the problem.  It&#039;s the big three: housing, healthcare, and education that have gone up in price all out of proportion to middle class salaries; and thus it&#039;s families with children that tend to feel the squeeze the most.  

Yes, people tend to buy bigger houses, but that&#039;s not the whole story. The real premium is for houses in good school districts. I was lucky to find a 900 sq ft house for our first one. That 900 sq ft house with good school cost me as much as a 1800 sq ft house with a bad school would have. I paid more for the house because I was really buying schooling for our children.

I haven&#039;t had a raise more than 1%/year in six years, and in that time I&#039;ve had to take on health insurance premiums and quadrupled co-pays for health care.  I know that I&#039;m going backwards; and it sounds like I&#039;m not the only one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim&#8230;</p>
<p>You should take a look at Elizabeth&#8217;s Warren&#8217;s numbers.  She makes a good argument that it&#8217;s not actually the TVs and iPods (or even the food&#8230;which is cheaper now that 30 years ago) that&#8217;s causing the problem.  It&#8217;s the big three: housing, healthcare, and education that have gone up in price all out of proportion to middle class salaries; and thus it&#8217;s families with children that tend to feel the squeeze the most.  </p>
<p>Yes, people tend to buy bigger houses, but that&#8217;s not the whole story. The real premium is for houses in good school districts. I was lucky to find a 900 sq ft house for our first one. That 900 sq ft house with good school cost me as much as a 1800 sq ft house with a bad school would have. I paid more for the house because I was really buying schooling for our children.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t had a raise more than 1%/year in six years, and in that time I&#8217;ve had to take on health insurance premiums and quadrupled co-pays for health care.  I know that I&#8217;m going backwards; and it sounds like I&#8217;m not the only one.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Rosanelli</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-7801</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Rosanelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-7801</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right on in this post!

I don&#039;t buy the idea of the cost of living increases causing problems for the American families. If you look at median income increases compared to the price of bread (consumer goods), the percentage increase over the years is in favor to our income increase more than the bread.

I believe the problem is the number of additional temptations that we indulge in. For example, growing up, our family didn&#039;t have cellphones, internet, ipods, cable TV, DVD&#039;s, etc. because we were not invented or available yet.

Tim Rosanelli</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right on in this post!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t buy the idea of the cost of living increases causing problems for the American families. If you look at median income increases compared to the price of bread (consumer goods), the percentage increase over the years is in favor to our income increase more than the bread.</p>
<p>I believe the problem is the number of additional temptations that we indulge in. For example, growing up, our family didn&#8217;t have cellphones, internet, ipods, cable TV, DVD&#8217;s, etc. because we were not invented or available yet.</p>
<p>Tim Rosanelli</p>
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		<title>By: Zenobia</title>
		<link>http://beingfrugal.net/2008/04/14/not-keeping-up-with-our-parents/comment-page-1/#comment-7722</link>
		<dc:creator>Zenobia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beingfrugal.net/?p=648#comment-7722</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a first time reader and now a new subscriber. This entry and the comments have definitely made me feel better about recent financial decisions I have made. I was accepted into a PhD program without any funding for the first two years. Since I knew I could get into a program with funding if I applied to more schools next year, I decided I would. So many of my friend were shocked, and told me to take out loans, and I&#039;m wasting a whole year (I&#039;m in my late twenties, so time is of the essence, apparently). I could take out 50,000  in loans now, or take a year and try to find a school that will pay me to go there. It&#039;s not a hard decision for me, but there is definitely a mindset amongst my friends and acquaintances that things must come now, and if you can&#039;t afford it, then loans and credit is the answer. I was waffling, thinking they may have a point, but I realize I have a lot of years ahead of me to build a career and become financially solvent. No rush; being a poor twenty-something is rite of passage that a lot of people are missing out on. 

PS - I have a BA in anthropology. Hooray for virtually useless social science degrees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a first time reader and now a new subscriber. This entry and the comments have definitely made me feel better about recent financial decisions I have made. I was accepted into a PhD program without any funding for the first two years. Since I knew I could get into a program with funding if I applied to more schools next year, I decided I would. So many of my friend were shocked, and told me to take out loans, and I&#8217;m wasting a whole year (I&#8217;m in my late twenties, so time is of the essence, apparently). I could take out 50,000  in loans now, or take a year and try to find a school that will pay me to go there. It&#8217;s not a hard decision for me, but there is definitely a mindset amongst my friends and acquaintances that things must come now, and if you can&#8217;t afford it, then loans and credit is the answer. I was waffling, thinking they may have a point, but I realize I have a lot of years ahead of me to build a career and become financially solvent. No rush; being a poor twenty-something is rite of passage that a lot of people are missing out on. </p>
<p>PS &#8211; I have a BA in anthropology. Hooray for virtually useless social science degrees.</p>
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